A Sibling's Perspective

Announcer: Welcome to Addiction and the Family, “Episode 35: A Sibling’s Perspective.”

Casey Arrillaga: How has addiction affected your family?

Female Speaker: It robbed me of my father.

Female Speaker: Addiction's affected my family in absolutely every way.

Male Speaker: It has caused a lot of turmoil.

Female Speaker: It goes back to what I understand is at least three generations.

Female Speaker: It robbed my daughter of her mother. It robbed my mother of her daughter.

Female Speaker: Addiction has made our family quite challenging.

Male Speaker: Addiction has affected my family tremendously.

Male Speaker: It's affected my relationship with my sister where I wouldn't – I'd go for months without talking to her. It's a very difficult thing for everybody involved. It doesn't just affect the one individual. It's a disease that affects the whole family.

Male Speaker: Addiction is spread not only genetically through some of my relatives and I assume ancestors.

Female Speaker: It's generational.

Female Speaker: I think of him every day.

Casey Arrillaga: Welcome to Addiction and the Family. My name is Casey Arrillaga, and I'm a clinical social worker and addiction counselor at both Windmill Wellness Ranch and InMindOut Emotional Wellness Centers in Texas. I’m the author of the books Realistic Hope: The Family Survival Guide for Facing Alcoholism and Other Addictions and Spirituality for People Who Hate Spirituality.

Kira Arrillaga: I’m Kira Arrillaga, addiction counselor intern and recovery coach at Windmill. Casey and I were in our addictions together for over 10 years and have now been in recovery together for almost twice that long.

Casey Arrillaga: I've led hundreds of family workshops, but just as important is that Kira and I have lived the experience of being family to addiction as both children and adults.

Kira Arrillaga: Join us as we offer experience, strength, and realistic hope about how you and your family can find recovery together.

Casey Arrillaga: In this episode, we interview Ashleigh Nowakowski, who grew up in the shadow of her brother and, over time, of his addiction. She talks about the impact this had on her where she found her own healing and how this all led her to write her book, The Shadow Child. All this after a break to hear from one of our sponsors. [Commercial] Welcome back. Let’s jump into our interview with Ashleigh. Welcome, very happy to have you on the program today. If you want to take a moment and maybe just introduce yourself to our listeners and let us know what are you doing on a show called Addiction and the Family?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Sure. Thanks so much for having me. My name is Ashleigh Nowakowski, and I am a sibling of somebody who used substances, got into recovery, and then relapsed.

Casey Arrillaga: Unfortunately, that is sometimes part of the journey. I know you talk about that. You didn’t mention author, but you talk about that in your book. Do you mind, give us just a really quick look at what’s in that book and what inspired you to write it?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Sure. I’ve been sharing my story for over 10 years publicly, going into schools, working with families. I’ve always kind of wanted to write a book, but then, once my brother relapsed, I learned so much during that relapse that I didn’t learn previously that I wanted to share with people who are also struggling or in my shoes being a sibling. In my book, the first section is the story, what happened, and then the second section is how I was able to help myself throughout this journey.

Casey Arrillaga: Yeah. I noticed the stuff in the second half of the book certainly is not restricted you. Here’s what’ll help you if you’re a sibling.

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Right.

Casey Arrillaga: It’s a lot of very universal things that I really get behind and match very closely with the kind of message that we talk about here. How was it for you writing that book?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: It was emotional. It was I don’t want to say rewarding, but I felt like I was giving other people a gift that maybe I didn’t have. By learning this stuff and going through it again, I’m like, okay, this hurts really bad, but maybe this can help somebody else in the future.

Casey Arrillaga: There’s a really cool saying that we’re best suited to help the person that we used to be. I wonder if that resonates for you. Could you talk a little bit about what you hear in that?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Yeah. I used to be somebody who was super caught up in my brother’s substance use and in his recovery, and I think, if he never would’ve relapsed, I would’ve stuck in that cycle. It wasn’t until his relapse that I learned that I was just as sick in his recovery as I was when he first started using. It was like something that I never would’ve learned if this thing never happened, and I can see other people being stuck in that cycle as well.

Casey Arrillaga: When you talk about being just as sick in his recovery as you were in his using, I think of a lot of people who are maybe newer to recovery, especially newer to family recovery, might not really understand what you would even mean by that. Of course, the common thing is to go in and say, well, I’m not the one with the problem. I don’t have an issue. This person has an issue, and either I’m going to push them away, or I’m going to try and save them or something. Can you talk a little bit about what you learned in that? What do you see now when you look back?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Yeah. His early using years were really hard on our family, and then, once he got into treatment and he got sober and he started living the sober life, I see a lot of patterns that never changed. Even though he was sober, my parents and I still function like, okay, what if he relapses, or don’t say that in case he does relapse? We lived in this fear that if we did or said something incorrectly that it would be our fault, and we would cause him to relapse. The patterns were the same as when he was using, and it took a lot of therapy to undo some of those patterns.

Casey Arrillaga: A lot of people, of course, don’t recognize those patterns while they’re in them. One of the underlying assumptions that a lot of family members have that they may not even realize they have is the idea that they’re responsible for someone else’s recovery and someone else’s behavior, and if I play my cards just right, if I say all the right things and I avoid saying all the wrong things, then everything’s going to be okay. Do you relate to that? Is that a mode of thinking that you would say you had going on?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: I definitely had that going on. Yes, I definitely did. I don’t know if it was a conscious thing. If you would’ve asked me, I’d probably been like, no, I don’t believe that at all, but not until I really looked deep within myself and within my actions did I say, oh, yeah, okay, maybe I was.

Casey Arrillaga: If you had the opportunity to go back and talk to younger Ashleigh about that, what would you say?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: I would say you can only control what you can, and things that you can’t control you need to let go. I think, even though I didn’t want to control him, I wanted to make this environment where he would be sober and happy and healthy, and I would say to myself you can’t live that space for him. You need to help him be healthy by being healthy yourself and controlling only what you can control.

Casey Arrillaga: I think a lot of people can get down with that idea. I’ll just control the things I can. I’ll let go of the rest. A lot of people say, okay, amen. Hear you, sister. Let’s do it, but then maybe have a lot of trouble figuring out which one’s which. What would you say to somebody who’s maybe struggling with that part of the equation?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Yeah. I think that’s really hard. Again, we just want what’s best for them, and so anytime I questioned myself, should I do this or shouldn’t I do that, I have to take a step back and say is this my thing? If I step in here, is that really going to help him, or is it going to set him back, or does it really not make a difference? When I get stuck in those cycles of, okay, what can I do in this situation, I have to look at it as a third party and say, okay, this I can help with, but this I absolutely can’t because that is not anything I can control.

Casey Arrillaga: Yeah. I think a lot of people just have to learn that through hard experience, just like a lot of people around their own addiction have to learn through hard experience. What can I control? What can I not, all that sort of thing? Can you think of any pro tips that you might be able to tell someone to be able to differentiate those things without having to just do it all through trial and error?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: It’s a good question. I mean, I would definitely say that it has to be something that they want to do, so if you’re trying to make it so that they have to do it, then you’re taking the control from them. It’s almost like, I don’t know, passing the torch to them and saying you’re in control of yourself, but that doesn’t really help.

Casey Arrillaga: Do you think that’s something – just being able to say to your loved one you’re responsible for all your own thoughts and feelings and actions and I can’t take responsibility – I’m not taking responsibility for those things. Hey, if we could control our loved ones better, everyone probably would’ve done that by now.

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Right.

Casey Arrillaga: We could lecture and advise people better. It should’ve worked by now. If we let go of that idea of I’m responsible for your outcomes, then that might be helpful. What do you think makes that difficult?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: I think it makes it difficult, at least for my own experience, because every time we would say that it’d get – it would be thrown back. Oh, well, you didn’t support me. You weren’t there for me. You didn’t do this, that, and the next thing, and so that’s why I did this. I think as we’re – if we’ve been in it for a while and we’re used to these dynamics and then we shift something and say you know what; you’re in charge of yourself, they go oh, no, what do I do? Then the backlash happens. You should’ve done this. I should’ve done this. Then, all of a sudden, you start questioning yourself. Oh, shoot, is this my fault? I think that’s where those patterns – you stay stuck in those patterns.

Casey Arrillaga: I hear that if you take it on.

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Mm-hmm.

Casey Arrillaga: I agree that sometimes people, especially in their disease – and saying the disease is not limited to just the act of using. What I’m hearing is these patterns continue, and I saw that in your book. These patterns continued even when he’s sober or you’re hoping he’s sober. I hear also in the book you questioned I don’t know for sure when he was sober and when he wasn’t.

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Mm-hmm.

Casey Arrillaga: Let’s just go with it face value. Assuming he’s sober, the same family dynamics are happening. He still wants to put everything on you. It’s still up to you, though, isn’t it about whether or not you take it one?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: It is. It definitely is. I think it’s hard when you’ve been living that way for so long to say I’m not doing this. Then, again, you go back to, if I don’t do that, will this happen? I guess we were just so afraid of something really bad happening and it being our fault, which is very unrealistic, and I do realize that now. That was just our thought throughout the whole thing.

Casey Arrillaga: You’re talking about that journey and having grown up living certain way. That is more true for a sibling than, for instance, a parent. For a parent, you might’ve lived half your lifetime. Then you have a child, and then most of us might get a good 8 to 10 to 15 year head start before the addiction really kicks in, becomes obvious. As a sibling, you might be living with it or certainly these personality characteristics, these tendencies, for most of your life, depending. Would you mind just giving maybe a little synopsis of what your journey as a sibling was growing up with this?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Yeah. My brother started when he was a teenager, and at first, we just thought it was teenage stuff, but then it started to get really bad. He was angry, and he was destructive and getting arrested, going to jail. For me, I felt in the shadow. That’s why I wrote The Shadow Child. So much time and energy was focused on him and his use and getting him out of jail that I grew up on my own. I had to fend for myself for most of my teenage and early adulthood. Then he got into treatment when he was 21, so I was 24. That’s how it went.

Casey Arrillaga: You talked about things starting with his active addiction when he was in his teenager years, which is pretty common. Did you notice any of those personality characteristics before he started using drugs, or what was your relationship with him like before all that?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: We had a pretty close relationship before that. We were super close, actually. We’re very opposite traits. I’m more of a rule follower and more quiet, and he’s more outgoing and really willing to challenge himself. He had a lot of risk behaviors. He wasn’t afraid to take risks. I think that definitely intrigued him when substances came across his radar.

Casey Arrillaga: Did any of the family dynamics that you came to know so unfortunately well – did any of those dynamics exist before he got into his addiction in terms of your interaction or the family’s reaction to him?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Yeah. I mean, I guess I never looked at it like that before, but I think, in a way, yes. He had ADHD, and his teachers always had conferences. Yeah, I do see it a little bit before that.

Casey Arrillaga: I wonder about that. In a lot of families, they can get formed around this idea of the identified patient. This is the person in the family who has or, even better yet, is the problem in big capital letters. This person is the problem. We’re focused on them. It sounds like some of that did start before the addiction was going on, again, with him getting the spotlight, and from what you said, you were comfortable not being in the spotlight.

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Yeah.

Casey Arrillaga: Is that correct?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: That is correct.

Casey Arrillaga: May be used to it but also comfortable with it. Okay, I’m good with that. He can get the attention, especially if it feels like negative attention. Oh, great, you can have all the negative attention. Yet, I wonder, especially as the older sibling, what’s that like for you to stereotypically have the younger kid come in and initially they get more of the attention? They’re the baby, all that kind of stuff. You’re supposed to be responsible, but at a certain point, that starts to balance out. What happens for you when it doesn’t?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: I don’t really remember it affecting me when I was younger, but I saw it more in my teenage years when I needed my parents more going through some of those challenges of dating or just trying to figure out my own independence, getting my license, just those challenges that we face. That’s when I really started to notice, oh, my gosh, maybe I don’t have a support system like I thought I did have before.

Casey Arrillaga: Did you feel like you still needed to be part of his support system, even as you were floundering a little bit looking for yours?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Oh, sure, yeah, yeah. He’s always been a super important part of my life. Even when he was using, I was always there for him so yeah.

Casey Arrillaga: You talk about that sense of, okay, so I need support around here. Did you feel like you had a voice to be able to say that?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: No. I don’t say that in a way that my parents would’ve shut me down. I think that my parents just had so much going on that I didn’t want to cause anymore stress on them, so if I voice my concerns, I felt like, okay, maybe it’s not that important and maybe they don’t need that extra stress.

Casey Arrillaga: Yeah. I’ve heard that from a number of siblings doing family work over the years is that they’ll say, well, I didn’t want to put extra stress on my family. I didn’t want to burden my parents because they had their hands full with this sibling or other kid going on. Yet, what does that do to you?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: It makes you very quiet as an adult. I feel like I – I mean, I’m almost 40 now, but I feel like it took me awhile to find my voice, even within my friends’ groups, within my relationships, because I never wanted to burden anybody. Then I didn’t know how to use my voice because I never had in the past.

Casey Arrillaga: Yeah. I noticed there seems to be an underlying assumption that if I speak up for my needs then I’m burdening somebody.

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Yeah.

Casey Arrillaga: Are you shifting that.

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Oh, yes. Yes, I’ve done a lot of therapy work, and I am definitely doing that. The rewards have been great, actually.

Casey Arrillaga: I wonder maybe if somebody’s listening to this program thinking, wow, that sounds good. I need to learn how to use my voice or maybe is scared to. What would you say that – maybe out of some of your own experience, strength, and hope that might be helpful for someone struggling with that?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: I would say it’s not like just go for it. I always say take baby steps. If you have a really good friend, just say how you’re feeling and get their feedback on it. It doesn’t have to be like just come out blazing with I’m going to tell everybody how I feel. Start small with people you love and you trust and see how it goes, and then go from there.

Casey Arrillaga: Wonderful. If I can ask – you mentioned therapy has been really helpful. Do you engage at all with any family recovery fellowships?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: I do not.

Casey Arrillaga: No pressure there, but I’m going to take a second and plug them for our other listeners because they are very helpful for people a lot of times, things like Al-Anon or SMART Recovery, Family and Friends, stuff like that. You mentioned therapy has been really helpful for you. Can you think of any things within therapy that particularly stand out for you that helped you find your own voice and feel more able to express it?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: I mean, a lot of reading some good books that my therapist found. Boundary work was huge in my therapy in finding my voice and figuring out why I hadn’t been using my voice. That was really, really helpful.

Casey Arrillaga: Now, within your book, you talk about where your brother gets into recovery, and you start to do work together to help spread a message of recovery for others and carry a message of hope, which is something that very much resonates for me. Then that starts to shift as well as you become uncertain about his recovery and what’s really happening. Do you mind describing that a little bit? A lot of families look at, if my loved one got sober, then there’s the Holy Grail. We made it, and they live happily ever after. Could you talk about what some of the reality was like for you?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Yeah. I mean, we spoke everywhere throughout the Midwest, almost three, four times a week spreading hope. Then I started to see some red flags, but I didn’t want to think that it was happening. I didn’t want to believe it. I didn’t want to see it until I was, basically, smacked in the face with reality that he was drinking again. It completely turned our world upside down because we thought he was sober for 10 years, and he was always saying I would never go back. I have my children. I have all of this. I mean, he had relapsed early on his recovery, so it wasn’t the first time. We were just shocked. We thought, like you said, we made it. Here we are. We’re doing so well, but the reality was that wasn’t the case.

Casey Arrillaga: [20:51] there because we’re hearing a couple different sides of it. Partly, there’s the thought, hey, we made it. We’re doing so well. You also mentioned that something about the family dynamic never really changed, and this family dynamic that so many people experience based in fear – walk on egg shells. Make sure we don’t say the wrong things. What if he relapses? That doesn’t really go well with the idea that we made it.

Ashleigh Nowakowski: No.

Casey Arrillaga: It sounds like you never actually get to let your guard down.

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Yeah. I didn’t see that when we were in that.

Casey Arrillaga: What do you think made it difficult to see?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: I think we were just so happy to have him sober and alive that we just let things slide.

Casey Arrillaga: If you had to do that over again, what would you do differently?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: I would have gone through therapy myself. We did do family therapy in the beginning, but then there was never anything after that. I would’ve highly suggested my parents continue through therapy. You said, at one point, we identify them as the problem. Now, looking back, we all played a role in that problem. In the beginning of his treatment, we all went to family therapy, and then it stopped. There was nothing for, okay, now what? How do we fix some of these dynamics? It was like, oh, he is sober. We’re good. Move on with our life. We’ll go on from here. It’s nobody’s fault. I don’t blame anybody, but I wish we would have stuck as a family in therapy.

Casey Arrillaga: One of the things that I do, I work in a treatment center, and I run a family workshop there every week and get to work with families. I try and tell people, but it’s hard sometimes to hear. First of all, you have your own recovery. We’ve talked about that a little bit, but so often that recovery is made contingent on whether or not their loved one is sober. If they’re sober, people suddenly say I don’t think I need this anymore. I don’t need to go to therapy, or go to meetings, or read the materials, anything like that. I think sometimes those same family members would be horrified if their loved one who is in early recovery from addiction suddenly stopped going to meetings and reading the material or going to the therapy, stuff like that. As family members, we can just think like, okay, well, I think my work here is done. What have you learned about that yourself?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: I’ve learned that it is never done. It’s a constant thing that needs to continuously be worked on. I don’t know if trauma is the right way, but it is a huge part of your life and a huge thing that, at least for me, I went through for many, many years. Just to be like, okay, he’s good or we’re good and be done, problems arise in the future where you’re going to need those supports, and you’re going to need to know how to handle those situations.

Casey Arrillaga: Yeah. That idea of when you say, well, the work’s never done – and you kind of said it with a smile and a laugh, and I appreciate that. I wonder, though, what goes with you for that idea that the work’s never done?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: You can never fully prepare for what’s going to happen next. My brother relapsed. I don’t know where he is in his recovery. We don’t have a relationship, but he’s still in our family. There are situations that come up where I want to revert to my old habits, and I have to remind myself and work with my therapist that you can’t control that. This might happen. I don’t think you’re ever going to be completely free from things that happen.

Casey Arrillaga: Which is the same thing we would say about somebody with the addiction. There’s always some danger of relapse. For a family member, what do you think would qualify for you as a relapse?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: For me, it would just be returning to some of those behaviors that he had in the past, and in my situation, his relapse was drinking alcohol. Now, in the past, he was using heroin. I don’t believe he’s gone back to that, but the alcohol for him is just as bad.

Casey Arrillaga: When you say going back to an old behavior, would you feel comfortable giving an example of what one of those old behaviors might be?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Sure, just lying about his whereabouts, having to get up and leave early in the morning when he really didn’t have anywhere to go but he needed to get out of the house to do something, that would be a red flag for me, and it was for his wife. Things like that.

Casey Arrillaga: I wonder, can you think of an example, maybe a parallel for you as a sibling, what would a relapse to your old behavior look like?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Mine would be trying to figure out where he is, what he’s doing, who he’s with, checking in with him constantly to make sure he’s okay. That would be a relapse for me.

Casey Arrillaga: Yeah, it’s funny. It immediately came to mind when you said that, the family recovery fellowship, Al-Anon. One of their dos and don’ts is don’t keep checking up on the alcoholic, and that can be really difficult for people, especially, quite frankly, with modern technology. People are like, okay, I can track them everywhere they go. I’m like that might not be good for either one of you.

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Right.

Casey Arrillaga: Given that, are you ever tempted to check up on social media or anything like that or checking with family members and just get a little hint about how he’s doing?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Oh, sure. Oh, yeah, definitely. Then I have learned the 24-hour rules. I think, okay, do I need to check in? Then I’m like, okay, wait ‘til 24 hours and see how you feel in 24 hours. Then if it’s still bothering you or something then I wait and see. I try to give myself some time to really think about it and not just react in the moment that that happens.

Casey Arrillaga: It’s an excellent idea. Interestingly enough, if I’m working with people directly who have an addiction going on themselves, I’ll say that idea of partly to pause and partly to recognize him getting a craving. Sometimes I think family members might not recognize that they might have an analogous craving, a craving to know that my loved one is okay. That’s a very normal, natural human thing to feel, especially about someone where they’re a family member and all that kind of thing. I wonder, are there other things you can think of that you might do in the face of that craving to either find out how you’re doing or trying and control their situation in some way, even with the best of intentions? What do you do to get away from that?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: For me, I like to maybe listen to music, or I might talk to my mom about it and just say, hey, this is how I’m feeling. I might talk to my husband about how I’m feeling. A huge one for me is journaling. I’ll write down how I’m feeling, the whys, the hows, the what would I do? What would I do if I did reach out? What could happen? Just trying to process it all within my journal helps a lot too.

Casey Arrillaga: Those are fantastic tips. Thank you so much for that.

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Mm-hmm.

Casey Arrillaga: That seems like a good place to take a break to hear from one of our sponsors. [Commercial] Welcome back. Let’s hear the rest of Ashleigh’s interview. How long has it been since you’ve talked with him now?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: It’s three years.

Casey Arrillaga: Do you know if other immediate family members like your parents or any of them are in closer contact with him?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: They are not. We do live in the same city. Our boys play on the same football team, so I have seen him. I haven’t had any communication with him.

Casey Arrillaga: Would it be okay to ask maybe on behalf of the listeners what happened to led to that break?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: He started drinking. He has split custody, so I did tell the mother of his child that he was drinking. He did lose custody for a period of time, and I don’t think he will forgive me for that.

Casey Arrillaga: It sounds like the lack of contact is more on his end than on yours.

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Correct.

Casey Arrillaga: If he reached out today, how do you think you might respond?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Again, I do want to protect myself from not reverting back to those behaviors that didn’t work well for me in the past. I mean, I would listen to him and what he had to say and then take it from there, but I wouldn’t have any expectations. Again, I would probably put things in place to protect myself from going to those old habits.

Casey Arrillaga: What kind of things do you think you might put in place?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: I would probably meet with him in a public place, and I would probably keep it short and just maybe mentally prepare myself again in my journal. What if he says this? What would I do? Just so that I’m equipped to protect myself.

Casey Arrillaga: I hear a lot of great work around boundaries, and you mentioned that earlier. You talked about that a good bit in your book. Would you mind maybe explaining to our listeners what are some the things you learned around boundaries and have been particularly helpful for you?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Yeah. When he was in recovery, I had zero boundaries. I’d just let him do whatever he wanted, and I’ve learned that that isn’t helpful for him in any stage of either his recovery or not. That wasn’t helpful. I learned that, again, it goes back to control. What can I control? What can’t I? There are certain things that, if he were to start blaming me, I would have to walk away. That would be a boundary and just not putting myself in situations right now while I’m still working on myself that would cause me to revert to those old patterns.

Casey Arrillaga: In your communication with him, what are some ways that you have or could set boundaries?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: One of the things that I have learned when I do need to communicate with him is just to be very blunt with no emotions in it. These are the facts. This is what I’m either asking you or just letting you know, and then leave it not open-ended so he can come back to me and blame me and those sorts of things.

Casey Arrillaga: I often think of boundaries as being a way to really stand up for our values and our safety as opposed to a way to try and control somebody else’s behavior. Does that resonate for you, and how do you see that applying in the boundaries that you set?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Yeah. That was really hard when we first started doing boundaries with our therapist. It was like I won’t have communication if you’re drinking. That’s not really a good boundary because you can’t control that. I really had to step back and say I will talk to you on my terms when I am good and healthy, so just really taking a step back and thinking about, again, the things that I can control. My boundaries can’t rely on whether he’s sober or not because that’s not something I can control.

Casey Arrillaga: I hear that idea. Though, I could say, well, if you’re not sober, I’m going to limit our communication or back away, but if you are sober, then I’d be happy to reestablish. I think sometimes people get into what I call leading with a nuclear option. They’re like, if you drink again, I’m never speaking to you again, which may not be true at all and, for the most part, is usually not even what we want. We’re hoping to scare somebody into submission or behavior, and that’s not very realistic. As we well know, they’re going to do whatever they’re going to do, just like any of us will. I wonder in there that idea of protecting your safety and your values – which by extension also means for your family as well, right? You’re not just protecting yourself. Where have you seen that come into play given that your kids, as you said, play on the same team, know each other? Where do you see this maybe impacting them?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Yeah. That one’s been really tough because my son and his son are three weeks apart and they are inseparable, so I do keep communication with his ex because of our boys being so close. My son’s almost 13. He has an idea of what’s going on. His cousin has filled him in, and I leave it up – my son’s choice, whether he wants to talk to him or not. I am always within eyesight of my son. In the beginning, my brother asked to take my children, and I set a boundary that absolutely not. If you want to see my children, then you can come visit them at my house. It is really tough because I don’t want them to have a negative image of him or give them information that might be above their age, so I just say right now, your uncle, he is working on spending time with his family and getting healthy. If you want to say hi to him, you’re more than welcome to. If you’re not comfortable, that’s totally fine with you as well. I don’t want to force my children to do something they don’t want to do, but I also don’t want to stop them if they do want to talk to their uncle.

Casey Arrillaga: It’s a difficult spot for a lot of family members, and I hear them say, well, I don’t want to influence how the kids see their uncle, or their aunt, or whoever. Yet, at the same time, this disease of addiction often does run through generations and families. Especially when our kids are getting to an age where they’re going to directly confront drug use, including alcohol, recognizing alcohol as a drug, at what point maybe do we do them a disservice by not talking about what really happens so that, at the very least, they’re forewarned for trouble or issues that they might run into and certainly will see in their friends?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Yeah. My son, like I said, he’s going to be 13, so he is in that age. He does know more than my younger daughters. My youngest is 8, so obviously, she doesn’t really know. He does know it’s in our family history, and he does know what has happened in the past. I just didn’t get into specifics on what happened recently with the court case and everything. He does know that his uncle was drinking, and that’s why he didn’t see his son. Yeah, it’s definitely a conversation that we’ll have to get into more as he gets a little older.

Casey Arrillaga: Yeah. No. Especially as he moves towards the same age that his uncle started to slide into that stuff, it seems like maybe fair warning to say, hey, by the way, just so you know, runs in the family. Here’s what it looks like, and here’s what happened with your uncle and maybe give him a clearer picture.

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Yeah.

Casey Arrillaga: You mentioned, to circle back around, the work that you used to all do together, going out presenting publicly. In your book, you talk about how you continued that work without your brother.

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Mm-hmm.

Casey Arrillaga: Can you talk a little bit about what that looked like for you? What kind of shifts or transformations happened for you around this?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Sure. When we first started speaking 10 years ago – well, maybe it’s almost 13, 12 years ago. We did speak a lot as a family, and then we started realizing that our family story is great. Our parents needed some tools. We started to develop programs that help provide tools, and it shifted a little bit prior to him relapsing. Once he did relapse, we just more focused on the tools versus this is our family story. We’re here to provide hope. My mom’s still an interventionist. She works with a ton of families, and our programs are just more geared towards providing practical tips for parents versus this is our story. We do still share our story, just in little snippets.

Casey Arrillaga: You mentioned in your book that your brother, true to type even from your childhood, was the one who initially had the spotlight. He had everyone’s attention, the charisma, and you were content to stand back. You said in the book that, when he left fairly suddenly, you still had speaking engagements booked, and you weren’t sure what you were going to do. What happened for you at that point?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: I just had to face my fears and do it. I took over the role of some of the presentations, introducing and stuff. I was forced out of the shadow, so to speak, and it actually felt really good to – internally to say you can do this. You are good at this. I was forced, but I’m glad I was forced.

Casey Arrillaga: When you mentioned moving out of the shadows, that actually – given the title of your book, The Shadow Child, at that point, you stopped being the shadow child.

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Yeah.

Casey Arrillaga: What’s that like for you, and how’s that resonated in other areas of your life?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: I definitely have found my voice. I’m definitely more confident. My relationship with my parents is 10 times better than it’s ever been. Obviously, it was really hard for them to hear how I felt during that time period, so they had their own therapy work around that. We are in a really great place, and I hope that by my parents getting the help and getting healthy and myself getting help and getting healthy that, ultimately, that’s going to circle back for my brother who is, hopefully, getting help and getting healthy as well. I’m a firm believer, like I said earlier, that we all are in this, and we all need to get healthy together. It’s not just one person.

Casey Arrillaga: Absolutely. While we would never wish that the relapse would happen, I can’t help but notice that, in a way, it becomes a gift. As you said, the family might’ve just stayed in this pattern indefinitely if you hadn’t been able to face the reality of what happened. Again, it’s nothing we would wish for, but finding those gifts within a relapse, finding those gifts within the family struggle can be very powerful and, hopefully, maybe reframe for the family rather than we’ve – this curse happened to us and this terrible misfortune, but to be able to say, actually, we have been able to turn it into a gift. Does that resonate for you?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Yes, definitely. At first, it was awful, and then working on myself, I do feel it was a gift. For me, it strengthened a lot of the relationships that I had put on the back burner because I had such a strong relationship with my brother. I feel I’m happier because I’m not so consumed with my brother and how he’s doing and where he is. I didn’t realize how much I was carrying until I wasn’t anymore.

Casey Arrillaga: Yeah, what a powerful message there for a lot of family members to maybe take a moment and look and see how much am I carrying? I know there’s so many people out there who would say, hey, sign me up. Pile it on my back. I’ll do that if my loved one will be okay. It’s hard to realize that no matter how much weight we try and carry for them we can’t guarantee they’re going to be okay, and we can’t even guarantee that we’re making the situation any better by trying. There’s an opportunity I hope – for some families out there, I hope don’t go through the relapse but still can pick up some of those gifts and recognize we could put the weight down. We could stop taking responsibility for someone else’s behavior. I say this often jokingly to people, but this idea that I’m going to make my wellbeing dependent on somebody else is never really a great idea for any family relationship. Yet, we can do it with our kids. We can do it with our parents. We can do it with our siblings, but if you are going to do that, the last person on earth you want to pick is somebody with an addiction. What a terrible choice of, if you’re going to be okay, I’ll be okay. Go pick somebody else. Pick somebody who’s doing okay, and yet, we can often turn to the person who’s most obviously struggling. As we’ve heard here, not the only one struggling but just most obviously struggling and say we need you to be okay so that we can be okay. In a way, even though we’re there to take a weight off of them, we think, in a way, that actually puts extra weight on them because they can’t help but notice, right?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Right.

Casey Arrillaga: Everyone struggles with my struggle.

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Yeah. I don’t know if my brother would recognize it, but I’m sure it was a lot of weight for him to say I have to stay sober because all these people are counting on me to stay sober. I’m sure that was a weight that he carried that none of us knew.

Casey Arrillaga: Yeah, you wouldn’t immediately recognize that that was happening.

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Mm-hmm.

Casey Arrillaga: As you said, sometimes we take these things for granted. He may not have recognized it either, and yet, it seems, from what you’ve described, that when he was struggling his tendency or his temptation was to try and throw the weight back on you and say, hey, this is your fault.

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Yeah.

Casey Arrillaga: It’s your fault that I’m like this. I’ve unfortunately talked to some family members who come, for instance, to the family workshop that we run at the treatment center where I am, and they’ll say, man, I’ve been to some of these family workshops. It’s just all about blaming and shaming the family. I’m like, well, you’re in the right place because we’re not doing that here. I know that it’s easy for families to do that to themselves, and I’ve noticed that every member of the family is ready to take all the blame. The person with the addiction says, okay I’ve messed up the family. Often, if they lash out, they’re actually lashing out out of guilt and shame. The siblings will say, well, I should’ve spoken up sooner. The parents will say, well, if we’d done a better job raising them. The grandparents will say, well, I should’ve raised my kids better so that they raise my grandkids better, and the kids, of course, look around and say, well, I – maybe if I was a better kid. It’s like everybody’s ready to take that weight on where there’s maybe the option to put it down instead. I wonder, what have you learned about being able to put that weight down?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Yeah. It’s really freeing. When you’re carrying that weight, you don’t realize how much you’re actually missing in life because you’re so focused that you don’t notice things. For me, it was taking away time from my children. I was short. I was snappy. I was the same way with my husband. When I put the weight down, I was like, oh, my gosh, the world is beautiful. I have all these amazing people in my life where I’ve been lashing out at because I’m carrying all this weight, and I guess I just didn’t realize how amazing things are when you put it down.

Casey Arrillaga: That’s beautiful. As we move towards closing, I’d ask what would you want to say to family members out there, especially maybe other siblings who might be going through or have been through some of the same things that you have?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: I just want people to know that, whether their loved one gets sober or not, that there is hope that they themselves can find themselves. They can heal from whatever happened, and they can go on with their life. I spent so much time worrying and carrying his burdens that, like you said, when I put it down, it opened me up to so many possibilities and so many things that I missed out on. There is hope no matter what happens to your loved one that you can find yourself.

Casey Arrillaga: Beautiful. Hopefully, lots of people are inspired by the message of what you’ve been talking about today. Where can they find your book, and where can they find more information about you and your work?

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Sure. My book is sold on Amazon. I also did record my own audio book, so it is in audio form as well. If you want to look at some of the work that we’ve done, YourChoicePrevention.org has all of our programs and stories and all kinds of great resources for families.

Casey Arrillaga: Fantastic. Thank you very much for being on here, and I just want to wish you and your family, including your brother but especially you and your own recovery – I just want to wish you all the best.

Ashleigh Nowakowski: Thank you so much for having me.

Casey Arrillaga: Absolutely. That’s Ashleigh Nowakowski’s interview. Check out her book, The Shadow Child, and visit her page at AshleighNowakowski.com. That’s A-S-H-L-E-I-G-H-N-O-W-A-K-O-W-S-K-I.com. Thanks for being with us through another episode of Addiction and the Family. As they say in many recovery meetings, take what you liked and leave the rest. Go out and explore the possibilities for recovery in your life and give your loved ones the space and dignity to make their own choices. If you liked this podcast, please subscribe. It means a lot to us. If you know anyone else who could use what we have to offer, please tell them about Addiction and the Family. If you have comments about this podcast, have a question you’d like answered on the show, or want to contribute your voice, or just want to say hi, you can write to us at addictionandthefamily@gmail.com. We’re also happy to be your friend on Facebook, and we can be found tweeting on Twitter.

Kira Arrillaga: Addiction and the Family is produced, written, and engineered by Kira and Casey Arrillaga, with music by Casey.